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jmaster299
01-31-2017, 08:18 PM
I'm starting to put together a new build and am wondering about clearances for using a 280mm front raid in Push/Pull config. Yes I know Push/Pull is typically not needed, but I'm using NZXT's AER RGB fans on the inside, and they don't have good static pressure for radiators. So the idea is to us good SP frans in front, no need to be RGB since they are hidden, and the AER fans on the pull side for aesthetics.

From what I can see/tell from various reviews and videos, this shouldn't be a problem, but am trying to see if any has actually done push/pull on the front of this particular case to get direct feedback. Just for reference, my pcpartpicker build is linked below, new GPU is listed as I already have an EVGA GTX 1070 FTW. Also from what I can see in this case, those front fans mount directly to the case, and the radiator mounts inside the set front mount. So having those push fans doesn't technically add to the thickness on the interior of the cast.

The plan is to also mount the rad as high as possible so as to not lose access the HDD cage in the bottom.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/jmaster299/saved/RvTbt6

zlegendof
02-01-2017, 11:33 AM
Unfortunately, there is no way to mount a 280mm rad in the front of the Evolv ATX without removing the HDD cage below due to the hole spacing. A 240mm should have no problem however.

Why not mount it on the top? The AER fans in push would work well in this situation. I did this setup in my Evolv ATX (albeit with Corsair AF 140 fans). The Corsair LPX will have the clearance for this setup.

jmaster299
02-01-2017, 05:07 PM
Unfortunately, there is no way to mount a 280mm rad in the front of the Evolv ATX without removing the HDD cage below due to the hole spacing. A 240mm should have no problem however.

Why not mount it on the top? The AER fans in push would work well in this situation. I did this setup in my Evolv ATX (albeit with Corsair AF 140 fans). The Corsair LPX will have the clearance for this setup.

I would have normally mounted the rad on top, until I watched this video. I have always been a "mount your rad on top as exhaust only" person, but that video made me question everything. The whole reason I am going with a 280mm rad, over a 240mm, is I want to push that 7700K to 5GHz at a minimum. So the best CPU temp possible matters, and using a 280mm rad, especially in push/pull, helps achieve that. And from what that testing shows, mounting it in front as intake helps even more.

I am also having a conversation with someone directly on youtube that modified their Evolv ATX TG to mount that front 280mm rad higher up. It requires some drilling, but that's something I'm comfortable with. Also, mounting the rad on top in push/pull would likely block the rgb infinity mirror on the X62 pump.


https://youtu.be/xNAMxZgvves

doyll
02-02-2017, 06:48 AM
Sorry to be blunt, but you seem to want bling over quality and performance. Kraken X62 is not all that good .. it is just another Asetek OEM CLC with a aluminum radiator and no way of repairing or upgrading it. AIOs like Swiftech 280 X2, EK Predator, be quiet Silent Loop 280mm or similar are much better quality and are not CLCs. They are actually component systems with copper radiators, hoses, fittings, pump that can be replaced or modified/expanded to needs. I suggest you look at some of the Alphacool OEM coolers like the be quiet Silent Loop, Alphacool Eisbaer. Some are not available in USA because of USA patent laws.

jmaster299
02-02-2017, 06:16 PM
Sorry to be blunt, but you seem to want bling over quality and performance. Kraken X62 is not all that good .. it is just another Asetek OEM CLC with a aluminum radiator and no way of repairing or upgrading it. AIOs like Swiftech 280 X2, EK Predator, be quiet Silent Loop 280mm or similar are much better quality and are not CLCs. They are actually component systems with copper radiators, hoses, fittings, pump that can be replaced or modified/expanded to needs. I suggest you look at some of the Alphacool OEM coolers like the be quiet Silent Loop, Alphacool Eisbaer. Some are not available in USA because of USA patent laws.

Sorry to be blunt, but your snobby elitism is as unhelpful as it is unwelcome. To claim the X62 is either bad in quality or performance exposes yourself as someone ignorant to the facts. Cooling performance on the X62 is excellent, and there is no issue with the quality of it's parts or it's build.

A quick search shows me suggestions like your Swiftech 240 X2 (and it is 240 X2 for the dual 140mm version, not 280) is no better than the X62 in terms of cooling performance. Worse actually, as the review I found for it compared it to the older X61 and that X61 had a slight edge in terms of temps and the X62 outperforms the X61. So the copper radiator on that Swiftech seems to offer no benefit under normal conditions. I also can't use a 4 fan push/pull config that I want on that Swiftech 240 X2 either. That Swiftech also has clear tubing, which I don't want, and such short tubing that it has to be mounted on top, also something I don't want. And if I felt like changing that tubing, I wouldn't be looking for an AiO in the first place.

I could spend all day nitpicking your other "suggestions" but the point would remain the same. That your suggestions are not based on actual facts, just your jaded opinion. I also like how you take the time to point out how some AiOs aren't available in the US, because those coolers are just using stolen tech from the coolers you are bashing.

I did looked at multiple reviews for things like the Switch, and at no time was it truly out performing any the quality, but more basic, AiOs. It even lost out to many of them in the different tests. The X62 also has a 6 year warranty on it, compared to the 1 year warranty offered for the Swiftech H240 X2.

TL/DR I know what I want, and I posted here looking for specific information on how to do something. Feel free to keep all unrelated opinions to yourself. Especially when those opinions are not backed up by the facts.

Mrsabs
02-03-2017, 04:05 AM
I finished this configuration in this case 2 weeks ago - ie the Kraken X62 front mounted with stock fans in push mode. Kraken radiator tubes at top of the chassis (Same config as on the X62 box).

Drilled 6 holes in fan rails to allow the 280mm radiator to sit wholly within case and not have to remove drive cage. Must use the Kraken Radiator as a template for the holes as the center holes are not the usual 15mm spacing, more like 10mm. I drilled holes at 10mm and 15mm and then slotted them so any 280mm radiator will now fit.

2x 140mm Phanteks front case fans removed. Fan/Radiator combo are mounted inside the case, fans are not located on chassis rails - main reason is to create a larger channel for intake air to flow. There is enough room inside the chassis to mount push/pull wholly in the case and still have clearance for a very long GPU card (More than 320mm)

Main thing to watch is the bottom of the radiator must be mounted almost touching the removable panel otherwise the top of the radiator will obstruct the front panel cables where they run through the backplate hole.

Also the top 2 holes in the fan/radiator do not attach to the fan rail as the rail ends about 40mm from the top of the case. In practice this doesn't create any issues.

Installed 120mm Silent Typhoon Fan in front of case as intake at bottom most position - mounted with double sided tape. This placement aligns the top of this fan with the bottom of the X62 so there is no overlap between them. I have a WD Black HDD located in the cage and it idled at 45c without the 120mm fan, now down to 33c If not running a HDD then probably not required.

2x 140mm Phantek fans from front installed in top of the case as exhausts but they only run when motherboard hits 37c - designed to purge case of hot air if it builds up from combo GPU and CPU running hard. I prefer positive vented cases for dust control but they accumulate heat under load especially with front radiator exhausting into the case. So basically the case is positive at idle and negative at load.

Other bonus of this config is the Samsung 950 Pro NVME SSD is now finally temp controlled with extra air from the 120m front fan. Previously it idled at 45c and would throttle data speeds quite often. Its average temp now is 33c so I don't expect it to throttle back as much now.

Cooling results so far from initial testing:

CPU I7-6700k
GPU ASUS Strix GTX 1070 OC

Ambient Temp: 26c
CPU Idle: 23c
GPU Idle: 41c

Ambient Temp 31c (It was 44c outside at the time)
CPU Idle: 27c
GPU Idle: 41c

15 minutes under Prime95 Torture test running simultaneously with 15 minutes of Valley Benchmark for GPU
CPU Max: 64c
GPU Max: 65c

So with a high ambient and the CPU and GPU both under full load the temperatures still left lots of headroom for overclocking.

Other bonus is this configuration is very very quiet at idle. When under load most noise is from the stock exhaust fan as it ramps up quite aggressively, now I have the top 2 exhausts I will play with the settings and share the load a little more evenly.

717

Epikastema
02-03-2017, 11:25 AM
Make sure you take into account that the rgb leds are only visible on one side of the aer rgb. If you mount them in pull the led ring will face the radiator.

doyll
02-03-2017, 04:45 PM
Sorry to be blunt, but your snobby elitism is as unhelpful as it is unwelcome. To claim the X62 is either bad in quality or performance exposes yourself as someone ignorant to the facts. Cooling performance on the X62 is excellent, and there is no issue with the quality of it's parts or it's build.

A quick search shows me suggestions like your Swiftech 240 X2 (and it is 240 X2 for the dual 140mm version, not 280) is no better than the X62 in terms of cooling performance. Worse actually, as the review I found for it compared it to the older X61 and that X61 had a slight edge in terms of temps and the X62 outperforms the X61. So the copper radiator on that Swiftech seems to offer no benefit under normal conditions. I also can't use a 4 fan push/pull config that I want on that Swiftech 240 X2 either. That Swiftech also has clear tubing, which I don't want, and such short tubing that it has to be mounted on top, also something I don't want. And if I felt like changing that tubing, I wouldn't be looking for an AiO in the first place.

I could spend all day nitpicking your other "suggestions" but the point would remain the same. That your suggestions are not based on actual facts, just your jaded opinion. I also like how you take the time to point out how some AiOs aren't available in the US, because those coolers are just using stolen tech from the coolers you are bashing.

I did looked at multiple reviews for things like the Switch, and at no time was it truly out performing any the quality, but more basic, AiOs. It even lost out to many of them in the different tests. The X62 also has a 6 year warranty on it, compared to the 1 year warranty offered for the Swiftech H240 X2.

TL/DR I know what I want, and I posted here looking for specific information on how to do something. Feel free to keep all unrelated opinions to yourself. Especially when those opinions are not backed up by the facts.

You are correct, the Swiftech does not cool much better than X62 and is only a little quieter. But the components used in it are far suppier to X62 and it is not a CLC, but a component system, as I explained in my previous post and you either don't understand that or are just ignoring it. This blatant ignoring of what a component system is and your ignorance that 'quality' and 'performance' are not the same thing only reflects your lack of understanding basics. While warranties can be helpful from time to time, customer support is far more important. A warranty is only as good as the customer support the company supplies. Swiftech has good customer supprot.

Swiftech tubing is a component and can be easily changed .. something that cannot be done on CLCs.

The USA patent law allowed Asetek to patent the use of a pump mounted on the waterblock in any liquid cooling loop. But only that specific pump/waterblock design. At the same time Asetek was playing with this design several other companies had similar things being developed and sold, but better built. Swiftech was one of them. But because Asetek applied for a patent on the concept first in USA, none of the others can sell it in the USA. Everyone I know who has used and understands water cooling thinks the Asetek should not have been given the patent. I was a commonly known way of doing water cooling.

At least I know and understand what I am talking about and can support my reasoning logically with supporting data. You need to do more detail research and learn what you are talking about instead of just babble on and showing us how little you actually know about things.

You an use whatever you want, I don't really care. I just wanted you to be aware of what a 'CLC' is and why real water cooling people laugh at CLC users calling them 'wannabee water users'.

I'll try not to offer you any further help. :p

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jdolbear
02-06-2017, 04:07 PM
Looks great. Glad i actually took the time to read some post before posting a question. I love my ETG. I juat upgraded to an I7 7700k, GA-Z270X-GAMING K7, 16gb of jipjaws 3000mhz ram,and went with the h115i. Currently have it mounted up top. To be honest i dont care for it being top mounted, but couldn't figure out to mount it in the front without losing the drive bay under the shelf. A so let me see if i understand how you have done it. Use rad as templet marking out the mounting holes,then drill the holes out. Now im a little confused, looks like you have the fans mounted to the new holes, and then the radiator is mounted to the fans?

Mrsabs
02-06-2017, 10:25 PM
looks like you have the fans mounted to the new holes, and then the radiator is mounted to the fans?

Yes I have mounted the fans inside the chassis and radiator, so the screws go through the rails, through the fans and into the radiator.
I was originally going to mount the fans onto the chassis rails and then into the radiator (So in the picture above the fans will be on the same side as the 120mm fan at the bottom) but there is so much room inside the chassis I decided to mount it the way I did and give the incoming air a larger space to enter (Fans inside means a larger space for the air to enter - or at least in theory)

718

jdolbear
02-06-2017, 10:56 PM
Ok I see what you did there. Were you able to get screws into what would be the top mounting holes. And what size drill bit did you uae to drill the holes with?

jdolbear
02-06-2017, 11:01 PM
Also is there any noticeable noise or vibrations from the radiator not being screwed into the top holes?

Mrsabs
02-07-2017, 02:05 AM
I used a drill bit that was slightly larger than the holes already in the rails . The pre-drilled holes are tapped for screws so I made my holes larger as the screw needs to pass through the hole cleanly, the larger size holes also gives you a bit of 'wiggle room' when lining up the fans/radiator. If the holes are too small you have zero room for error in getting the screws lined up with the fan/radiator holes. You can start with a smaller drill bit and go a bit larger if you need to which is how I did it.

The top mounting holes on the fan are screwed into the radiator but obviously not the chassis rail. There are zero vibrations or movement in the fans/radiator combo even at full fan speed as the 6 screws holding the fans/radiator are more than enough to hold them hard against the chassis.

The bottom 120mm fan that I added is just mounted with double sided tape (no screws at all) and even that does not move or rattle, so 6 screws on the main fan assembly are ample.

jdolbear
02-08-2017, 09:10 AM
Thank you for the info. Plan on doing this to my case as well this weekend. Will post a pic or 2 after its done.

achat
03-05-2017, 01:53 AM
Do a 212 evo style cooler horizontal vs vertical mounting temperatures.

kazysaurus
03-15-2017, 04:22 AM
Exactly what I was looking for! Will let you how it goes in a few weeks

kazysaurus
03-15-2017, 04:26 AM
Thank you for the info. Plan on doing this to my case as well this weekend. Will post a pic or 2 after its done.

Looking forward to seeing those pics mate

Icykill
04-07-2017, 03:50 AM
Would it be possible to see a picture inside the case showing CPU block and radiator together. I'm trying to see how long the tubes are from the block to the front before I decide on with AIO/CLC cooler to use. I've had Corsair ones and they are rubbish, even if they review well and show good temps. I'm considering the DeepCool Gamer Storm Captain 240EX at the moment and if anyone has actually used one and has some feedback it would be greatly appreciated.

kevindd992002
04-07-2017, 05:30 AM
So if I understand correctly, the topmost fan slot in the front area of this case is 120mm which is why you cannot mount a 280mm rad using the top and the middle fan slots in the front area, correct?

tomcruzz
04-10-2017, 01:17 AM
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seventeensec
04-13-2017, 05:23 PM
I used a drill bit that was slightly larger than the holes already in the rails . The pre-drilled holes are tapped for screws so I made my holes larger as the screw needs to pass through the hole cleanly, the larger size holes also gives you a bit of 'wiggle room' when lining up the fans/radiator. If the holes are too small you have zero room for error in getting the screws lined up with the fan/radiator holes. You can start with a smaller drill bit and go a bit larger if you need to which is how I did it.

The top mounting holes on the fan are screwed into the radiator but obviously not the chassis rail. There are zero vibrations or movement in the fans/radiator combo even at full fan speed as the 6 screws holding the fans/radiator are more than enough to hold them hard against the chassis.

The bottom 120mm fan that I added is just mounted with double sided tape (no screws at all) and even that does not move or rattle, so 6 screws on the main fan assembly are ample.

** UPDATE **

I did a delidding procedure on i7 6700k and WOW!! Now that made a HUGE difference in OC temps! I dropped 20c at 100% load (depending on tool used). I could get the CPU to thermal throttle very easily using prime95 with my 4.6ghz OC on air before. With the NZXT, I could still get it to throttle, though not quite as easily. After the delid and using liquid ultra thermal interface, the same tests don't go above 77c. More "normal" benchmarks (still 100% load) are around 60c. Honestly, can't believe the difference. As a result, I was able to bump the voltage to 3.65v and run 4.8ghz, though I decided to back it down to 3.2v and keep it at 4.7ghz (I'm able to run stock voltage at 4.6ghz). Totally happy with that and rock solid.

Next up is getting it even quieter at full load and case fans dialed in with NZXT fan hub once it gets back in stock (waiting a couple weeks now). Have three NB-eLoop fans ready to go once the hub arrives.

--------------------------------------------------

I found these posts very useful and originally was going to go this route as well (drilling additional holes). However, I found another method that's totally solid IMO and requires no drilling or loss of the HDD bays. I've mounted the radiator and fans in the same way as Mrsabs, but instead of drilling holes found that the top set of screws for the bottom fan align with the stock case holes. I used the stock screws from the OEM fans to mount the bottom NZXT fan and radiator to the case. The bottom of the fan is just pressure fit against the case with no screws at the bottom. The top fan is pressure fit in place against the case at its bottom (located near where the rad is screwed in) and I secured it using the OEM Kraken screws and washers at the top -- just the fan into the rad (not secured into the case).

Even with just two screws in the middle of the radiator securing it to the case it's very secure. So secure I'm not worried about it all. Pulling on it any harder and I'd be afraid of damaging the aluminum rad (stripping out the screws or something). None of the fans move even though they're half held in by pressure and there's no vibration issues at all. My rig doesn't move around once setup, but even if I had to move it I wouldn't worry. In fact, I worried a heck of alot more with the heavy 'Be Quiet' Dark Rock Pro 3 air cooler this setup is replacing and flexing the motherboard. Of course, YMMV, but I think this is much simpler and easier than drilling holes, it just took a few hours to look at it and sort out.

The only caveat is you'll need to remove the top plate cover that's screwed over the HDD bay area as the bottom of the radiator hangs down into the bay just a few MM. It's not enough to prevent use of the drive bay though as I still have my 3.5" storage drive mounted there with plenty of room. I was also concerned about temps of the HDD bay with no fans blowing in now, but my idle is the same (36c) without the fans. Since heat rises, I think it may have offset having the top plate directly above the drive moved and creating air movement by the bottom radiator fan in that general area? Just a guess, but no temp issues either way.

I moved the stock fans to the top of the case exhausting out. I think this is a great setup and completely happy with it. It hasn't dramatically lowered my OC temps, but that wasn't my goal which was reducing noise. My prior air cooler delivered solid results, but was pretty loud (by my standards). I now get -5c lower temps at full CPU but also hugely reduced noise. My system at full load now sounds like it did at idle previously and that's using the 'silent' profile. I live in a warm and humid climate, so my ambient temp is always around 25c.

My next step will be to install the NZXT USB hub (mobo only has 1 USB 2.0 header), NZXT fan controller and three lower RPM fans (probably the Phantek 600RPM models). I believe I can get even quieter at 'normal' loads while maintaining my 4.7ghz i6700K OC. Some like max performance, I like max quiet and performance! :)

I hope this helps out others looking to do the same setup. Love this cooler and very happy I made the purchase.

nguyencong
04-15-2017, 02:59 AM
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Nick
11-09-2017, 03:05 AM
Mrsabs - THANK YOU SO MUCH for your post - it was EXTREMELY helpful.

I purchased the ATX TG case and want to install the Coolermaster Masterliquid 280 Rad in a Push/Pull Config and have been tearing my hair out trying to work out how to mount it. Putting it in the front is the best option I think anyways (its more aestheticaly pleasing and balances the case out and I prefer to have it there then on top as it hides my RAM.)

I did not wish to remove the bottom HDD tray and you have answered my questions exactly on how to do this. I do not mind that the top two screws aren't fixed - the rails are not full length. Do you have a shot of the other side so I can see how the rad ended up fitting in your case?

Thanks so much for your data!!!!

Nick
11-09-2017, 03:12 AM
Mrsabs - sorry I did not see this picture before - you have answered all of my questions. Thanks.

And I agree on all points - mount the entire unit inside the case so that there is a larger void in the front for airflow - plus install a 120 fan in the bottom for my WD HDD, and use the stock phanteks in the top for exhaust.

I intend to have a full push/pull with the Coolermaster Masterliquid 280 plus 4 Master Fan fans on each side - this will be 77mmm thick but there is heaps of room in the case to still be able to fit a Titan XP as well. Amazing to find someone with the exact same set up and idea - and thanks for making it work and the time you took to explain it to noobs ike me lol.